Backups, For Shamoo

hoofer · Post by **hoofer** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:38 pm

Nice thread sandt38 i have used dvdrebuilder since beta and bought the pro version, this has got to be the best way to back up a dvd..

have you ever used the menu encode or the view/editor witch is still beta at the moment just curious as just wondering how stable it is ? as havent tried it yet (this feature is only in the pro version not the free one just incase anyone looks for it on their free version)

i have allways done over 4 passes with any film, the longer the film the more passes i will do, nothing over 7 or 8 thou witch useally takes anything from 4 to 9 hours depending on compression to dvd5, can i ask where you got the info from about anything over 2 passes not getting any better results, iam just curious as all the threads i read on doom9 could never agree on pass ratio to benefit, the only thing they could sort of agree on was that anything over 8 wont adjust the bitrate with any major diiferance. but havent been their in a while so this could have changed..

i use most of the steps you point out above just i spread the encode over 3 drives and build the iso inside dvdrebuilder and use the batch encodeing feature... one problam i have had thou is with seasons checking of the steal space from extras can sometime result in the actual season episode beeing misstaken for the extras and dvdrebuilder takes the bitrate from the episode's and gives it to the extras instead of the other way round, the only reason i could find was that the extras where bigger in size than the individual episodes so iam presuming dvdrebuilder just got them wrong due to the size.... have you ever had this problam ?

sandt38 · Post by **sandt38** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:17 am

Hoofer,

I have not messed with either function, and in fact I haven't upgraded it in about a month. I felt he got all the bugs out of the program (at least, those that plagued me) and I left it fly with that. In all honesty, I always worry about trying new things when I know I am successful with the old. I rarely update untill I see the problems have been ironed out.

JDobbs (DVD-RB deisgner and writer) stated such in a detailed thread about DVD-RB on Afterdawn. In all honesty, I never really noticed a real differance between 2 pass and 4 pass (using CCE-SP 2.7 mind you) enough to justify the extra time it takes. I am sure if I sat down and viewed frame by frame I would see enough errors, but as it passes on the screen I tested a few films with heavy compression (Lord Of The Rings, Fellowship of the Ring, and Terminator 2, Special Edition both with all soundtracks and extras which are HUGE films) and didn't notice a valid differance between 2 and 4 pass. Now, with Procoder you must use the highest quality settings, as they are definately noticeable (depth of color being very obvious), but IMO CCE provides a more accurate reproduction then Procoder. I compared both films with the origionals as well, since I posess both origionals, as well as with Procoder, HC and QuEnc just to compare for my own personal preferance. Like I say, I could pull down individual frames and find errors, but in real time the differance impossible to discern. Of course, bear in mind that what we view on screen and in motion is very subjective, we see what we tell our eyes we are seeing, so my observations may very well differ from yours... but that doesn't make either one of us wrong. All of our senses are purely subjective.

Yes, "Steal Space From Extras" can cause issues with shorter film segments, such as seasons. I used to use the function (crushing 55%) untill I ran into a similar issue... Maybe on Rome? I have also had "Film and Menu Only" backups eliminate widescreen from a dual format disc, because the widescreen selection does nothing more but add the edges of the frame that were removed for fullscreen, and it determined it was an "extra" due to size. So this is another thing to consider when "Stealing Space" or "Film and Menu Only" backups.

Very good points to be made here. I am glad you mentioned that. Information like that is invaluable when we are learning, and it keeps us from ruining our precious discs and time.

Also worth mentioning (and again thanks for kicking the thoughts around about things I have run into) keep in mind when ripping with Shrink and AnyDVD, Shrink will often times eliminate DTS soundtracks automaticaly, so you must ensure the option is checked if you want to keep the best surround mode available on your disc.

hoofer · Post by **hoofer** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:07 pm

You make a lot of sence with what you are saying sandt38 about what things look like in real time to frame checking everything. I will give the 2 pass a try,got to do some encodes this week so will do a trial at 2 pass and let you no how it turns out (hopefully good save me a tone of time) i also use CCE SP2.7 so should come out the same.. never used the menu and film only option so thanks for the heads up on it...

sort of of topip...

do you ever use virtualdub/mod to frameserve to CCE sandt38 ?

shamoo · Post by **shamoo** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:10 pm

whens the next bit comming? i'm hanging in anticipation on what its going to look like

CavemanLawyer · Post by **CavemanLawyer** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:56 pm

The CCE manual (some versions at least) state that the point of diminishing returns with this particular encoder is reached at some point between the 3rd and 4th pass, but it concedes that the benefits of anything above 2 passes is minimal.

My rule of thumb...Encode overnight and do as many passes as you can so long as its done by the time you wake up.

DVD-RB is a nice little program but you're not a real man unless you do it all by hand. DVD Decryptor->DoitFast4u->Avisynth->CCE->Scenarist.

hoofer · Post by **hoofer** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:36 am

shamoo wrote:
QUOTE(shamoo @ Dec 1 2006, 10:10 PM)
whens the next bit comming? i'm hanging in anticipation on what its going to look like

Done 4 encocde's last night Shamoo all 3 Pass havent realy noticed any big differance with a 5 pass of the same seires i had allready done. The 3 pass encoded's took around 2 hours each in batch mode with encode menu's and steel space from extras selected on 2 of the 4 encodes.. so looks like 3 pass will work fine.. (Thank's sandt38) i can screen grab before and after if you wont to see screen grabs shamoo..?

When steeling space from extras sandt38 would you recomend changeing the matrix on the extras to low bit rate matrix, this is something i have been doing with a 33% steel ?

shamoo · Post by **shamoo** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:27 pm

hoofer wrote:
QUOTE(hoofer @ Dec 3 2006, 02:36 AM)
Done 4 encocde's last night Shamoo all 3 Pass havent realy noticed any big differance with a 5 pass of the same seires i had allready done. The 3 pass encoded's took around 2 hours each in batch mode with encode menu's and steel space from extras selected on 2 of the 4 encodes.. so looks like 3 pass will work fine.. (Thank's sandt38) i can screen grab before and after if you wont to see screen grabs shamoo..?

When steeling space from extras sandt38 would you recomend changeing the matrix on the extras to low bit rate matrix, this is something i have been doing with a 33% steel ?

well i'm still very new to this, i only ever used shrink untill i got my hd tv a saw the mess it made of the picture lol.
as for passes i cant change mine it's set as 2 but if 3 better how do i change it? is that because its a free version? I have my paths all sorted so im stuck here lol, what do i tick for "video title set" - "audio streams to keep" - "subtitles to keep" at the moment none of the are ticked?

hoofer · Post by **hoofer** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:30 pm

sandt38 gives the details of how to set the options for audio / subs in the 5th thread down this page.. as for the pass setting if your useing CCE basic it is not changeable To anything More than 2 as far as i no, witch it sounds like you are. are you useing eclcce in conjunction with CCE ?

if your not, and your useing CCE SP then the pass setting is here

Settings / CCE Settings / Advanced (expert) Settings

Your looking for VBR Passes.... But 2 will give better results than shrink anyday so i would'nt wory if its not changeable. I only done 3 cause i had the time useally i would have done 4 or more but after sandt38 advice i droped the amout down..

shamoo · Post by **shamoo** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:49 am

i've done that its at the front page where you click on "backup dvd" under out put path.
"video title set" - "audio streams to keep" - "subtitles to keep"
just need to know what to tick?

hoofer · Post by **hoofer** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:56 pm

when you where in settings/setup did you check off the audio you wont to remove, so say you just wont english audio/subs then all other audio /subs would have a tick by them, when you have selected make sure you hit save on the audio and subs or it wont save the settings and all audio and subs will be still left in. you will see if its not saved the settings as all the audio and subs will still be active under title sets, if you have saved the settings correctly you will see red crosses on the un selected audio/ subs.

I have put a screen grab so you can see what i meen, will remove once you have viewed

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Backups, For Shamoo

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