The Comic Book Collection by Kernie

[SnaKou]

QUOTE (Kernie @ Jul 13 2017, 05:41 AM) I've got some bad news for you, SnaKou... but your "true" Spider-Man is NEVER going to happen onscreen because your "true" Spider-Man may be different from other peoples version of the perfect Spider-Man. Spider-Man has been around since 1962 and has been interpreted by many different writers and artists in his 55-year comics history. What version of Peter Parker/Spider-Man do you want? The Stan Lee/Steve Ditko era? John Romita Sr. or Romita Jr.? Todd McFarlane? 90's-era Clone Saga Spidey? Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man? There is no one true, perfect version... and Spidey's history has been far more consistent than someone like Batman (Adam West, Tim Burton, Christopher Nolan, Frank Miller, the Animated Series... all of which are wildly different interpretations of the same character). [etc...]

Of course, and that's why I put some " around the "true" word. I absolutely don't wait the "perfect movie", I'm just dreaming of a movie that shows me no ENORMOUS mystakes about the character. I can be very compliant about some different details if they are well brought, but drastically changing a basic of the character can be crippling for me.

QUOTE (Kernie @ Jul 13 2017, 05:41 AM) In regards to Spider-Sense, I'm actually glad they didn't include it. For one, how do you visualize it in a fresh, new way from what has been done before? Two... Spidey being able to see/predict/sense what's about to happen is a really vague concept when you think about it. Does Peter magically "feel" everything in the room around him? Does time literally slow down or does he respond at hyper-speed? Does he actually see what's about to happen in his mind? Or is it that he just gets a weird sense of dread and becomes alert to something bad about to happen? How far of a time span into the future can he see? How far of a distance can he detect what's coming at him? I don't recall his Spidey-Sense ever being fully defined in the comics (although I could be wrong). In Homecoming, he does demonstrate very fast reflexes in his fight with ATM robbers, so just because they don't come out and specifically state or depict a "spider sense" doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't have it. [etc...]

This time again I understand your point of view, but isn't Spider-Sense a basics of his powers ? I understand its hard to explain or demonstrate, but this is part of him. I think it would not be fair to remove Wolverine's healing ability just because it makes him too strong or because we saw it too many times in other movies. Its part of him and thats all :/

So I don't need to see the Spider-Sense overexploited in the movie you know, but just a little sentence thats tell me clearely this power exist and can explain his extraordinary reflex can be enough for me ^^

QUOTE (Kernie @ Jul 13 2017, 05:41 AM) Trying new things or providing a fresh take on the source material (whether in the comics, film, TV, or cartoons) is why these characters have evolved and endured for all of these years.

Yeah, I understand what you mean, and you have a point about this. But I think it is also hard to try to evolve something if it does not rest on its foundations. Taking too many liberties by removing some basics of the characters can be a mistake in my opinion.

QUOTE (Kernie @ Jul 13 2017, 05:41 AM) But we do see Peter's homemade suit and webshooters in Homecoming. We even see him concocting his own web-fluid. Peter's ingenuity is demonstrated by his own costume and gadgets... Stark merely upgrades them. And imagine you're a penniless kid who suddenly has his cheap tech revised by a billionaire... you're going to geek out just as Peter does in the film. And the moral of the story ends up being that Peter doesn't need expensive suits, fancy tech, or even membership with the Avengers to become a true hero. The theme of "does the suit make the hero?" is central to this film's story and Peter's character arc.

Glad to hear it ! It reassures me

QUOTE (Kernie @ Jul 13 2017, 05:41 AM) In closing, I strongly urge you to get this friend of yours to the theater so you can actually see the movie for yourself (and I apologize for spoiling anything for you... I've tried to keep everything as spoiler-free as possible). You're throwing opinions around based off of what you saw in the trailers and from what I'm telling you. Don't judge it until you see it... and don't judge it based off what YOU want or expect to see but what it actually provides. Marvel did a good job of integrating this new Spider-Man into their cinematic universe at a time when they weren't planning to introduce him. The Sony deal came up and they had to rework their Phase 3 plans to weave him in. There were a lot of ways in which this film could have gone badly, especially with Sony still attached. Luckily, it worked out pretty well. It's not perfect, but it's certainly fun and entertaining.
Unfortunately, if you go into the theater expecting to see your vision of your "true" Spider-Man on screen, well... I'm afraid you'll never be satisfied.

Don't worry, I don't intend to judge it before seeing it, and I do not expect to see the movie that will show me "my" vision of Spider-Man. I'm okay with new interpretations if they stay a minimum close to the original product ^^
I realize that I give the impression of being very suspicious towards the movie, but in fact I am very enthusiastic about it ! And seeing messages like yours gives me even more desire to see it !

QUOTE (Kernie @ Jul 13 2017, 05:41 AM) But anyway... stop typing to me and go see it so you can actually have a valid opinion on the film! Then come back and we can discuss it further!

We planned to see it in two weeks (oh god, its soooooo far away !), so be sure I would give you my impressions if they interest you

Thank you again for your very complete impressions

PS : And don't worry about the spoilers you mentioned, they are reaaaaaaly minor and can not be considered as spoil in my opinion Thank you for your concern about it

[Hearttlight]

Kernie, I'm super excited for you. You're in for some fun changes! Congrats.

[Kernie]

QUOTE (SnaKou @ Jul 13 2017, 07:46 AM) I'm just dreaming of a movie that shows me no ENORMOUS mystakes about the character.

To be fair, I don't feel any of the Spider-Man movies have made enormous mistakes with the character.

Raimi got pretty darn close, except he focused too much on the love story drama and forgot to give Spidey his trademark sense of humor... and the organic webshooters. All things considered, his first two films were very faithful to the original 60's era Spidey... with a few minor exceptions.

Marc Webb's Amazing films strayed the furthest from the character, but still got some things right. He's got mechanical webshooters and the sense of humor now, but he's lacking the strong moral center, behaves somewhat selfishly, and is too cocky and arrogant as Peter.

Homecoming gets the humor, youthfulness, and ingenuity spot on, but doesn't bog Peter down with the weighty drama of the previous versions. There's still some drama and hints of his strong morals and ethics (as well as the tragedy that created Spider-Man), but it's not laid on too thick.

All three versions of Spider-Man respect the core of the character much better than, say... Zack Snyder's vision of Superman, who is treated like a dour, uninspiring demigod who questions whether he should save people's lives.

QUOTE (SnaKou @ Jul 13 2017, 07:46 AM) This time again I understand your point of view, but isn't Spider-Sense a basics of his powers ? I understand its hard to explain or demonstrate, but this is part of him. I think it would not be fair to remove Wolverine's healing ability just because it makes him too strong or because we saw it too many times in other movies. Its part of him and thats all :/

So I don't need to see the Spider-Sense overexploited in the movie you know, but just a little sentence thats tell me clearely this power exist and can explain his extraordinary reflex can be enough for me ^^

Again, what is it that makes a Spider-Sense? Super fast reflexes? Heightened senses? We see both of those traits. He mentions in Civil War that he wears the goggles to help him focus and tune out the sensory overload that he gets from his spider-powers. And the way he dodges punches during the ATM robbery shows his fast reflexes. Those seem like things tied into the spider-sense. The film doesn't explicitly state that he has it, but it doesn't outright deny it either. Honestly, while watching the film and thinking about it afterwards, I never missed it. There's so much other stuff going on that it's almost not needed. Plus (and you probably won't like this part), the advanced AI in the suit almost makes the need for a "spider-sense" redundant.

And since you brought up Wolverine... Jackman played the character NINE times and not once did he put on Wolverine's classic outfit. Not too many people complaining about that. Can you imagine nine Spider-Man films that keep all of Peter's powers intact but neglect to have him put on his trademark suit? Fans would riot. And I'd bet good money you're not going to see Aquaman literally talking to fish in Justice League. Keeping what works for the film's story and discarding what isn't needed is all part of the adaptation process.

QUOTE (SnaKou @ Jul 13 2017, 07:46 AM) But I think it is also hard to try to evolve something if it does not rest on its foundations. Taking too many liberties by removing some basics of the characters can be a mistake in my opinion.

I understand and agree, but in this case, you're worried over nothing. As I said earlier, none of the film versions of Spider-Man take so many liberties that it betrays or ruins the character. Trank's Fantastic Four, Snyder's Superman and Jared Leto's Joker are far worse interpretations of their original characters than any of the three Spider-Men combined. And of course, Heath Ledger's Joker is also not a terribly faithful interpretation of the comic book Joker... and that worked out pretty well... for the fans anyway... not so much for Heath Ledger (too soon?).

QUOTE (SnaKou @ Jul 13 2017, 07:46 AM) We planned to see it in two weeks (oh god, its soooooo far away !), so be sure I would give you my impressions if they interest you

Good god, man... ditch this friend of yours who's making you wait two weeks! He's not a good friend. Find someone who will go with you on opening weekend.

I think I've seen every MCU film on the Friday or Saturday of opening weekend (sometimes even Thursday previews). If I don't, I feel like someone (or the Internet) will spoil it for me. I can't imagine waiting that long for something I really want to see. You're a stronger man than I am.

[Kernie]

QUOTE (Hearttlight @ Jul 13 2017, 07:50 AM) Kernie, I'm super excited for you. You're in for some fun changes! Congrats.

Thanks, Heartlight! I'm bracing myself for how much things are going to change, but I don't think I'll ever be truly ready for it!

[SnaKou]

QUOTE (Kernie @ Jul 13 2017, 02:53 PM) To be fair, I don't feel any of the Spider-Man movies have made enormous mistakes with the character.
Raimi got pretty darn close, except he focused too much on the love story drama and forgot to give Spidey his trademark sense of humor... and the organic webshooters. All things considered, his first two films were very faithful to the original 60's era Spidey... with a few minor exceptions.
Marc Webb's Amazing films strayed the furthest from the character, but still got some things right. He's got mechanical webshooters and the sense of humor now, but he's lacking the strong moral center, behaves somewhat selfishly, and is too cocky and arrogant as Peter.
Homecoming gets the humor, youthfulness, and ingenuity spot on, but doesn't bog Peter down with the weighty drama of the previous versions. There's still some drama and hints of his strong morals and ethics (as well as the tragedy that created Spider-Man), but it's not laid on too thick.
All three versions of Spider-Man respect the core of the character much better than, say... Zack Snyder's vision of Superman, who is treated like a dour, uninspiring demigod who questions whether he should save people's lives.

To be honest, Raimi's and Webb's movie are a bit complementary in my mind. They don't have the same qualities, and they don't have the same defaults, but if we mix the better of the two "sagas", we can have a pretty good result !
You're right when you said they're more respecting the core of spiderman than Synder's Superman or the Fantastic Four movie, but they're far than perfect too I think ^^

QUOTE (Kernie @ Jul 13 2017, 02:53 PM) Plus (and you probably won't like this part), the advanced AI in the suit almost makes the need for a "spider-sense" redundant.

You're right, I think I'll not like that very much xD But, it isn't such a betrayal by the way, in the comic books Civil War Saga, Spidey already weared an Hi-Tech costume from Tony Stark, so I guess this is a kind of wink about it ^^ But I hope he'll not keep it and will be using his own suit in the next movies ^^

QUOTE (Kernie @ Jul 13 2017, 02:53 PM) And since you brought up Wolverine... Jackman played the character NINE times and not once did he put on Wolverine's classic outfit. Not too many people complaining about that. Can you imagine nine Spider-Man films that keep all of Peter's powers intact but neglect to have him put on his trademark suit? Fans would riot. And I'd bet good money you're not going to see Aquaman literally talking to fish in Justice League. Keeping what works for the film's story and discarding what isn't needed is all part of the adaptation process.

lol perhaps, but I would have liked to see a costume for Wolverine in the movies Not necessary stricly the same as comic books, but a modern adaptation like MCU do would have been a capital gain for the franchise I think ^^" After all, X-Men have kind of a suit in all the movies, it would not have changed much to make them recall those of the comics instead of making classic leather's jackets xD

QUOTE (Kernie @ Jul 13 2017, 02:53 PM) Good god, man... ditch this friend of yours who's making you wait two weeks! He's not a good friend. Find someone who will go with you on opening weekend.
I think I've seen every MCU film on the Friday or Saturday of opening weekend (sometimes even Thursday previews). If I don't, I feel like someone (or the Internet) will spoil it for me. I can't imagine waiting that long for something I really want to see. You're a stronger man than I am.

lol xD It's kind of a tradition to see MCU movies with this group of friends, but sometime it's hard to find a time slot where everyone is available (especially during summer !)
I clearely understand your feeling about the spoil, you don't imagine how paranoiaque I am actually every time I see someone (on internet, tv or in the street !) starting to speak about Homecoming xD

[Hearttlight]

QUOTE (Kernie @ Jul 13 2017, 02:54 PM) Thanks, Heartlight! I'm bracing myself for how much things are going to change, but I don't think I'll ever be truly ready for it!

I know how it feels. My wife's due date was two days ago, and I'm fully braced. It's a great time, though. I hope you can fully enjoy every minute of it.

[Kernie]

QUOTE (Hearttlight @ Jul 13 2017, 10:46 AM) I know how it feels. My wife's due date was two days ago, and I'm fully braced. It's a great time, though. I hope you can fully enjoy every minute of it.

Congratulations to you as well! I hope all is going well and that you enjoy the craziness that I'm sure is to come!

[Kernie]

Two months without any updates?! This Kernie guy is a real a-hole. He better deliver something good soon!

[WilderMike]

QUOTE (Kernie @ Aug 3 2017, 06:32 PM) Two months without any updates?! This Kernie guy is a real a-hole. He better deliver something good soon!

What he said.

[ctaulbee]

QUOTE (Kernie @ Aug 3 2017, 01:32 PM) Two months without any updates?! This Kernie guy is a real a-hole. He better deliver something good soon!