Which movie truly deserves Best Picture?

[bpmford]

I feel we are moving away from the topic I was actually discussing.

I am not disputing how good the movie is, or trying to say that CGI and modern movies are far superior to old-time storytelling, I am merely talking about Best Picture worthiness.

The Artist may be good for what it is, but IMO whatever it may be it isn't worthy of being the best movie of the year. My view of a movie that deserves best picture, is one that captures multiple elements and is a breathtaking movie from a production standpoint (since that is what is judged for best picture). To me The Artist doesn't really do anything particular to display a stellar production as a whole Maybe if it took some chances, or did something beyond what could be done in 1925, bit it doesn't. Could it deserve awards for Cinematography, Acting, even directing, maybe, but that is not the discussion I am promoting.

I fully appreciate great movies of every kind, and am in no way trying to continuously defend Avatar, as it is far from my favourite film. I am mere judging this movie based off it's worthiness of a best picture award, which I think it is not.

It may be a great 'story', but that would merely award a original screenplay award.

I still think that War Horse will win best picture, and based off what I have seen from previews, it seems to be the best produced movie of the year, plus it's Spielberg, and the Academy loves him (we all know it effects voting a little bit). My final decision will be reserved until after I see it.

I go back to my original claim that if the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences really wants to expand their audience, which they on many occasions claim to want to do, they will not award best picture to The Artist. I think they made a big move forward in 2008 when they gave the award to the beautifully made, risk-taking Slumdog Millionaire... a movie that blew the rest away in every facet. If they give the award to The Artist, they will, IMO, be proving that they would rather go with the simple, safe choice, instead of really looking at the quality production... and that goes for all the voters.

If the Academy wants to award the best picture statue to a movie that is all around the best film, then it should be just given to the production staff, but the directors, and acts as well... But it isn't.

My opinions on what kind of movie I would prefer to see are a side note... I have the opinion I have, and I'd rather see a NEW movie be something NEW, or at least a re-imagination of something from the past using modern movie-making like Hugo.

[felipe-11]

I gotta say I agree with Ford here. I saw the trailer for 'The Artist' and I thought it was a step back, and it just looks like a cheap shot to try to win over the critics. Even the name of the movie —Artist— already suggests a sense of elitism that only folks who "really" know movies will know that this is a complete piece of art. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the movie is good, but I wouldn't be caught dead watching it.
There are much better ways to convey emotion without speech than a silly silent movie (take Ryan Gossling on Drive, or Andy Serkis in Rise of the Planet of the Apes, just to name a few examples from this year), they both give incredibly strong performances without barely making a sound and they are by no means a black and white silent movie.

Btw, they are playing the trailer for this movie, they just attach trailers to specific movies according to their genre (I saw the trailer before 'My Week With Marilyn' and some people seemed to like it) but if you play it before Transformers people would probably start booing it.

Ntrost, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with you on Avatar. Contrary to most people, I don't really think the power of Avatar lies in the 3D but rather the motion capture. It wasn't anything new; movies and videogames have been at it for quite some years now but IMO no other movie used it more wisely than in Avatar. Cameron set a goal to aim higher and not use prosthetic make-up, and give us non-human characters that we still can connect with emotionally. I think that was a first in film history and it couldn't have been done without him perfecting the existing motion capture systems. Of course Weta Digital was the one who rendered the final product and of course they got they're rightful Oscar.

And since we're on the subject of physical performances with 'The Artist', the actors in Avatar was probably the one of the most physically demanding movies ever. They didn't just "make things" in a computer; people had to jump, fight, train with bows and arrows, learn to move differently, learn to fly the dragons, learn to react to things that aren't there and pretend that that giant white box they were acting in was actually Pandora, because every single movement was motion captured. Heck, they even had to learn to speak a new fictitious language. If anything I think Cameron deserved at least 'Best Director' for putting together such an amazing effort, but since he already had an Oscar they just decided to do some charity work and give it to Bigelow just because no other woman had ever won it. And of course now history has it's first Oscar-winning directress thanks to the almighty Academy.

[bpmford]

You put it just as I wish I could!

QUOTE (felipe-11 @ Dec 14 2011, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And since we're on the subject of physical performances with 'The Artist', the actors in Avatar was probably the one of the most physically demanding movies ever. They didn't just "make things" in a computer; people had to jump, fight, train with bows and arrows, learn to move differently, learn to fly the dragons, learn to react to things that aren't there and pretend that that giant white box they were acting in was actually Pandora, because every single movement was motion captured. Heck, they even had to learn to speak a new fictitious language. If anything I think Cameron deserved at least 'Best Director' for putting together such an amazing effort, but since he already had an Oscar they just decided to do some charity work and give it to Bigelow just because no other woman had ever won it. And of course now history has it's first Oscar-winning directress thanks to the almighty Academy.

Great point felipe! In that same way it can be said that it is hard to convey emotion without speaking as silent movies did. I can't imagine how hard it is to pretend you are seeing a breathtaking new planet with crazy new creatures, while you are looking at white blocks and other actors with funny looking apparatuses on them and dots on their face.

Just don't get why their work is somewhat de-valued because of the movie they are making. To me it sounds like that opinion is an easy way out.

To me, producing movies like Avatar, 2012, and Sky Captain would be crazy hard... creating something from nothing and making it believable astonishes me! Always has!

Honestly, it would be way easier to produce a simple B&W silent movie... and that's my point



NTROST, you say you study film, yet you seem to have a narrow view of what makes good film-making... If your teachers only taught you to appreciate old movies because current film makers seem to have an easy job making modern movies, then there is something wrong.

[bpmford]

TOPIC UPDATED!

Ok, I thought I should come back into this thread now that I have watched the Artist, and give my thoughts.

I have relatively the same opinion I did before, but not as agressivly. I did like the movie, but I know that wasn't my argument.

It had a lot of great qualities, and indeed earned it's nomination. For a 2011 film, it could have easily beed pulled right off the shelf with other 1927 films; so, for that I give big props to production!

However, I still don't think it is the best movie out of the Ten, nor is it in the top 3 from the 6 I've seen.

I want to show my list of my favoirtes from highest to lowest, and I plan to updaye it when I have seen the final three.

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1. Hugo (A brilliant movie that tells a warm story about the history of cinema!)

2. The Help (Amazingly acted, and beautifully written, a great choice for the award)

3. War Horse (A beautiful and inspiring movie that does a great job at showing genuine emotion)

4. The Artist (Much better than anticipated, kept me wanting to see more, and fully entertained)

5. Midnight in Paris (way better than I was anticipating, and a wonderful story)

6. Tree of Life (A very weird movie, and I don't know if weird belongs in dramas, but it was ok)

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I still think the Academy would be smarter to pick something like Hugo or The Help, but I no longer will be ashamed to have this on my shelf if it wins.

Has anyone else seen a few of the nominees and has their own list?

[chefjoe]

Glad to see you saw the movie, i myself don't bother with Academy Awards anymore, as with any powerful "Award" they've all become far to political for my tastes, I will say this, though I did agree with the Hurt locker, simply for the political reasons, having been in a war, the attempt to honor some very brave and little know Soldier assets was monumental to me, so again I approved because of politics which to say is extremely rare for me. So... where exactly is thus going??? Who knows just a post for the sake of joining in, hehe

BTW
I'd vote for The Walking Dead if I could, hehe

[Nightrider]

WHAT THE....?? The Muppets aren't nominated???....

[felipe-11]

Hey Ford, yeah, I ended up seeing The Artist too. I didn't hate it or anything but I just thought it was an OK movie. I wouldn't watch it again and I though the only nomination that was really in place was for Jean Dujardin as Best Actor (although I don't think he deserves the win). I don't even think Bernice Bejo was that great in it either, so her nomination was a little too much IMO. Even the Best Cinematography nomination seems out of place to me (I mean, there is a reason why movies aren't shot like this anymore). The only truly enjoyable thing in that film to me was the dog, NOW THAT'S TALENT!

Anyway, I've seen all the nominated pictures except Midnight in Paris (I'll try to catch it this week) and these are my pics in preferred order:

1) The Tree of Life (like you said, very weird movie but I absolutely loved it)
2) Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close (completely unconceivable that a child would ever behave like that in real life, but never the less an amazing film packed with great performances)
3) War Horse
4) Hugo
5) The Help

(Here's where I lose interest in my list and I really fail to see how theses movies are in the "Top 9 best films" of 2011)

6) The Descendants (it was a solid movie, just beyond overrated)
7) Moneyball (again, a nice movie with some good performances but just can't get what all the fuss is about. Maybe it's just cos I'm not a baseball fan?)
8) The Artist

And still to see is Midnight in Paris... and for some incredibly bizarre reason The Almighty Academy didn't think there was a 10th film worthy of being in their sacred list. Really, why would they chose only 9 pics instead of 10?

Here's a few films that could have perfectly taken that 10th spot (heck, even replaced 6-8 for me...)

-The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo (seriously, how was this not nominated?)
-Drive
-My Week With Marilyn
-50/50
-The Adventures of Tintin (really, I thought this was one of Spielberg's best films in YEARS. Almost puts the entire Indy saga to shame. And I guess they didn't nominate it for Best Animated film since it wasn't technically animated, just 100% motion capture.)


Also my pics for Best Actor/Actress:

Lead Actor: Brad Pitt (like I said he was good in Moneyball but honestly he deserves it for Tree of Life and every other amazing performance he's given through the years)
Supporting: Nick Nolte

Lead Actress: Michelle Williams
Supporting: Jessica Chastain (although I haven't seen one of the nominees)

[bpmford]

Thanks for your list felipe! Interesting to see the perspective of someone else who has seen almost all of them.

I just saw two more yesterday, so here is my updated and expanded list with only Moneyball left to see:


1. Hugo: A brilliant movie that tells a warm story about the history of cinema! Not only did Hugo embrace that vintage cinema feel, but it combined it with modern technologies and stunning visuals; producing a beautiful piece of art. I am quite surprised there were no acting noms given to this one, especially for sir Ben Kingsley, who was brilliant! Another wonderful performance was that of Chloë Grace Moretz, whom I really liked in Kick-a$$, but definitely blossomed here, giving a performance that would rival most adults!

3. The Descendants: If it were just a drama about a family coping with a dying mother, then it wouldn't really get much notice here. However, it was far from that. I found Descendants to be a mix between Little Miss Sunshine, American Beauty and Juno. It is a movie about a entirely messed up family that has more problems than anyone really knows. But the way in witch this family copes with the situation, is entirely addicting to watch. It is one of those movies that, like the other three mentioned before, I could watch over and over, and still enjoy. And don't get me started on the acting! WOW!

3. The Help: Amazingly acted, beautifully written, and a great choice for the award. This movie is an adaptation of a novel, so my main props go to the talented crop of actresses in this one. I was especially impresses with Emma Stone who is still relatively new to the scene! I also found the story to be quite compelling, but unfortunately that praise doesn't go to the movie at all!

4. The Artist: Although I found the movie a little hard to keep up with (dialogue wise) at times (just the fault of not being very seasoned with silent movies), It did a great job at telling a story that was both interesting, and fitting to the movie itself place in modern film. My very reason for cutting it down before is reflected in the movie, and for that I really appreciated it. The movie also had an amazing acting crop, and some surprising and refreshing moments that made me smile! If it does win, I will understand why... But it still isn't my favourite!

5. Moneyball: A movie about Baseball that did an awesome job at not feeling like a movie about Baseball. Everyone loves the underdog story in movies, and this version was especially pleasant to watch. Brad Pitt did an awesome job, and the official breakout of Jonah Hill was a great one. I hope Jonah takes this as his opportunity to get away from laughable goofball roles and really makes himself a grade A actor. Great movie, great cast!

6. Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close: Although I can understand how this movie might be incredibly hard to watch for those who were directly affected by 9/11, I am not sure why it has gotten the negative reviews it has. First of all, I was quite blown away by the performance of Thomas Horn, a young actor with a real gift! The whole movie, although quite sad, was really well done, and intensely real! Although the story was not a real one, you could just feel the pain that everyone who was affected by the attacks had to go through. And Max von Sydow, so deserving of the supporting actor nomination!

7. War Horse: A beautiful and inspiring movie that does a great job at showing genuine emotion. I notice the critics called this movie overly sappy, but I'm not quite sure how it can be less sappy. The whole premise of the story is an emotional story about a boy and his horse. However, as I watch more nominees, I find myself pushing this one down further. I think the five above it are far better movies simply for the reason that their stories are more compelling. But, I don't know if thats the fault of those that made War Horse, or just that its story is what it is, so the movie followed corse.

8. Midnight in Paris: Way better than I was anticipating, and a wonderful story, but still finds itself down low= on my list, because I think it will be one of those that many forget about or don't even bother to see. The movie was really good, but there were lots of really good movies this year that didn't make the list that I would have put on instead of this one. It was good, but not amazing!

9. Tree of Life: A very weird movie, and I don't know if weird belongs in dramas, but it was ok. I thought the performances of Pitt and Penn were quite good, but the movie did a terrible job at making the cast unimportant compared to the movie production. I think if it told a more down to earth story about this family and its struggles, then it would be better. However, it tried to turn the whole thing into a fantasy. I felt like I would enjoy the movie more if I had eaten some magical brownies first. I also found myself, and the others around me while watching, having to guess at what was going on. We were debating on what timeline the movie was on at any given point, and entirely confused most of the time. If the film had just focused on delivering the story, and less on delivering endless odd visuals about the creation of life, then maybe it would make more sense.

[Nightrider]

I haven't seen any of them, but I have just seen Killer Elite, and that's a damn good movie! It's better than some that have won best pic over the years.

[bpmford]

Well finally saw the last movie, and did so before watching the oscars, but even thought it is over, I still updated my official list one last time.

As for my reaction to the results, I find myself contradicting my official thread more and more, and was seemingly rooting for The Artist by the end of the night.

When I watched it with Best Picture, and they invited the cast onto the stage (including the dog)... Plus the really nice acceptance speeches from Jean and Michael... I got reminded of Slumdog Millionaire; a movie that gained momentum as the awards got closer, and ended up being a heartwarming story by the time it won.

This is The Artist, and I am happy for it's win.

Guess I have proven to myself that I should give everything a chance before I judge it!

Except Twilight!!!