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[quote="voetzoeker"]QUOTE (voetzoeker @ Mar 30 2013, 07:43 PM) Great job explaining Kernie :thumb: :thumb:

On a side note:

You should always use the place option when importing vector EPS files in PS, otherwise the vector data will get lost.
If you just simply open a vector EPS, PS will convert it to raster when opening. (you can increase the resolution of the eps, and thereby the quality when opening, but it will always be raterized)

[attachment=25215:Rasterize_EPS.jpg]

You can do it this way, but keep in mind you can only scale DOWN your image and never scale it up without data los
as kernie explained :D [/quote]
Most of what you guys are talking about goes over my head, but it is still interesting to read it, so thank you for the explanations you have provided, one thing I can take from this thread is the above, that really explains something to me I have long wondered about, cheers guys :)

Yes Shapes are vector based, but to use the vector info you need to use the option shape layer, this will create a shape layer, that when you resizes uses the vector info and doesn't loose quality.

[attachment=25217:Shape.jpg]

If you set it to fill pixels , it will raterize the shape and you can't upscale it once you make it smaller :)

[attachment=25218:Shape_fill.jpg]

OK, that's sensible.

You know I only really need to open a logo from a file when it's not in your shapes files. I recall you telling someone once that you make them in Illustrator, so I presume they contain vector info. I guess now that PS rasterizes the shape as soon as I finish sizing it? It would be in my best interest then to size it the best I can the first time (or a bit large) because once I let go of the mouse it becomes a raster image so I can only reduce it without any quality loss.

Boy am I ever getting smart here, eh?

[b]Place[/b] loads the file as a Smart Object [i]within[/i] the existing PSD document that you have open.

[b]Open as Smart Object[/b] loads the files as a Smart Object in a [i]new[/i] PSD document. You would have to then duplicate the Smart Object into the PSD containing your design.

From what I can tell, the only difference is that [i]Place[/i] saves you the step of having to duplicate it into your existing PSD document. Although there may be other advantages of which I am not currently aware.

When I open an EPS logo file I typically set the resolution to 300 dpi because that's the resolution of the cover or label I'm working on. I guess I've been unknowingly doing that part right, but I never realized PS would rasterize it.

V: you said that the [b][i]Place [/i][/b]function opens the file as a smart object. What would be the basic difference then between [i][b]Place [/b][/i]and [i][b]Open As Smart Object[/b][/i]?

Great job explaining Kernie :thumb: :thumb:

On a side note:

You should always use the place option when importing vector EPS files in PS, otherwise the vector data will get lost.
If you just simply open a vector EPS, PS will convert it to raster when opening. (you can increase the resolution of the eps, and thereby the quality when opening, but it will always be raterized)

[attachment=25215:Rasterize_EPS.jpg]

You can do it this way, but keep in mind you can only scale DOWN your image and never scale it up without data los
as kernie explained :D

Yes Kernie, I'm pretty clear on this now. You don't need to bang your head any more.

It's like taking a low res image and re-sampling it to mega dpi. You can't create any image information that isn't already there.

No, IMO you actually just made everything clear! :)

:bang: :bang: :bang:

Bottom line...

1) If you're going to use raster images, or raster versions of logos, NEVER scale them larger than their original dimensions. Pixellation will occur no matter what.

2) There are ZERO benefits to saving a raster image as an EPS file. EPS preserves vector path information. Raster files don't have vector path information... so it's basically useless. Use JPEG, PNG, TIFF, or GIF (if you must) for raster images. Then refer to #1 above.

3) EPS format is meant to be a common vector format compatible with a variety of programs. Use EPS when you have a vector file that you want to retain path information.

4) Photoshop's "Place" feature is meant to place images into a document as a Smart Object. Smart Objects "nest" the original image file with the PSD, so that when the Smart Object is scaled down to 10%, the user has the ability to scale it back to 100% without pixellation. The reason it does not pixellate is because the original resolution image is preserved within the smart object. (On the flipside, scaling a non-Smart Object to 10% and then resizing back to 100% will result in pixellation because the full size image info was lost when scaled to 10%). However, as with #1 above, scaling a Smart Object above 100% of its original resolution will result in pixellation. In a nutshell, any time you scale any raster file larger than 100% of its original size, you will get pixellation. This cannot be avoided. It is the nature of raster images.

5) Vector EPS files CAN be scaled larger than 100% because they are not based on definitive pixels, they are based off [i]vectors[/i]... mathematical points and curves that, when scaled, are re-interpreted to maintain crisp, clean edges. This is the primary benefit of using vector shapes and vector EPS files for logos, they can be scaled smaller and larger over and over again without ever having to worry about the file becoming pixellated... because there are essentially no "pixels" involved.

In my attempt to clarify things, I may be making them more complicated. :( :(

[quote="voetzoeker"]QUOTE (voetzoeker @ Mar 29 2013, 06:37 PM) The thing to keep the quality of your original file when using it in a PS file is to use the "place" option, to import your file into your document.
This way it will create a smart object, this is basically your original file that you can scale down and up again without to much of the original quality getting lost.[/quote]
This is getting more complicated by the "post".

OK, I just tried out the Place function. I've seen it in the File Menu before but didn't have a clue what it meant. Not many people will know about this though because it's never been mentioned (that I've heard) before. Now I understand it's not [u]necessary[/u] to do this, but creating an EPS file from a raster image would be better than a PNG or TIFF if you expect the user will scale the file because (like me) he's never heard of the Place function? On the other hand, how much will a logo generally get scaled? You make it a little large so it looks good when it's shrunk and that just about covers 99% of the uses of it.