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bluesnow
post Mar 29 2013, 03:23 PM
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I must be missing something. I am using Photoshop CS6 and am unable to save something as an EPS file with a transparent background. I'm starting with a PSD file and every setting I've tried results in an EPS file with a white background. I've done it right before but can't seem to do it now.

This post has been edited by bluesnow: Mar 29 2013, 04:01 PM
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voetzoeker
post Mar 29 2013, 07:04 PM
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The only way to save an EPS file with a transparent background, is to create a Cliping Path from the path you created.

If you do not have a path, but simply a image with transparent background, there is no need to save it as EPS, but you can easily save it as tiff or PNG 8824.gif
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post Mar 29 2013, 07:07 PM
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Just curious, Vtz - wouldn't it be more prudent to handle EPS files in Ai?


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bluesnow
post Mar 29 2013, 07:25 PM
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I suppose I should just take the easy way out and use TIFF or PNG. I was trying to use EPS because Wysmommy had requested a logo in EPS format. I had the logo but needed to convert it.

I'll have to look into clipping paths and see what they're all about.

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post Mar 29 2013, 07:25 PM
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Absolutely JR, as EPS is a vector based format it would be much more obvious to use a vector based program to create it 8824.gif

@ Bluesnow the only need to save your logo in EPS format, opposit to PNG or Tiff is when you have logos created with a path,
this way the vector path is saved in the eps file and you can scale the file when placed in PS without any qaulity loss. 8834.gif

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bluesnow
post Mar 29 2013, 07:45 PM
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So if I have logos created with a path I can't save them as TIFF or PNG? Or is it just that I'd lose the path information and therefore not be able to scale without some loss in quality?

Do you create logos with a path just so they can be scaled? Or is there some other reason to have a path in a logo?
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voetzoeker
post Mar 29 2013, 08:19 PM
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Yes if you save your PS file with a path, as Tiff or PNG you'll lose the path and vector info

The path of a logo will always have a smooth curve, no matter how much you'll upscale 8834.gif

vector vs raster

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bluesnow
post Mar 29 2013, 08:23 PM
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Ah hah! I would like to find out more about clipping paths now so I can save as EPS.
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voetzoeker
post Mar 29 2013, 08:40 PM
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When you have created your path.
Open the Paths palette. Go to the options Menu (Little Triangle - top right) and select 'Save Path' and give it a name if you wish.
Go Back to the Paths Options Menu and select 'Clipping Path...'. Select the path you saved from the pull down menu.
Save as Photoshop EPS and check the option "Include vector data" 8824.gif

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Kernie
post Mar 29 2013, 08:44 PM
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Voetz has been spot on in his explanations, but to add my 2 cents...

I see no reason to save a raster image as an EPS. For raster files with transparency, use PNG. For raster files without transparency, use JPEG.

Saving a raster logo as an EPS does not automatically convert it to a vector path format. I've encountered dozens upon dozens of uninformed "designers" who have provided me with (what they believe is) a "vector EPS" version of a logo, only to open the file in Illustrator and discover that is simply a raster image of the logo saved in the EPS format. It's extremely frustrating.

EPS should be used when you have a vector drawing of your logo or illustration and want to preserve its vector paths. This will allow you to scale it to any size without every pixellating the image (as V's example above demonstrates). These types of vector EPS files are best created in Adobe Illustrator. EPS is preferred to Illustrator's .AI format because EPS is readable by several other programs, while AI's are mostly only useful if the user has Illustrator. If I receive a vector EPS file, say for example a title treatment or logotype for a film, I have the ability to alter all paths, change colors, and essentially "break" the artwork apart into all of the layers that the original designer has used to create the file. A true vector EPS allows me the greatest flexibility to do what I want with the file.

As a personal anecdote, I'm often surprised by how many people in the design field are flabbergasted by both vector and EPS. I've provided vector EPS files along with raster JPGs and PNGs (the rasters are mainly for reference) to several local printing companies and in 90% of the cases, the people at these companies are clueless about how to handle EPS. If they would actually familiarize themselves with the formats that are involved in running their businesses, they would realize that using the EPS is the best possible option for achieving the highest print quality with the optimal flexibility for editing or altering the file. In most cases, they didn't know what the EPS was, assumed it was useless, and deleted it. Then they would call me and wonder why the low-res reference JPG didn't print out well as an 8 foot by 4 foot banner. I have to bite my tongue and kindly explain that the "useless" file they deleted because they didn't know how to use it was essentially the most important file I could have sent them.

Okay, thanks for letting me rant about EPS files... that's been bottling up inside for a while. 8824.gif 8824.gif 8824.gif


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bluesnow
post Mar 29 2013, 08:49 PM
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Yes indeedy I'm just reading all about that right now. I'll start experimenting and let you know how I make out.

Thanks for the tips.
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voetzoeker
post Mar 29 2013, 08:55 PM
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Rofl, that sound all to familiar Kernie thumb.gif
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bluesnow
post Mar 29 2013, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (kernie82 @ Mar 29 2013, 04:44 PM) *
Voetz has been spot on in his explanations, but to add my 2 cents...

I see no reason to save a raster image as an EPS. For raster files with transparency, use PNG. For raster files without transparency, use JPEG.

If I have spent hours creating an intricate logo as a raster image, could I not then save it as an EPS so the user could at least scale it without losing what detail it may have had as a raster image? It would never get worse than the original then.

QUOTE (kernie82 @ Mar 29 2013, 04:44 PM) *
Saving a raster logo as an EPS does not automatically convert it to a vector path format. I've encountered dozens upon dozens of uninformed "designers" who have provided me with (what they believe is) a "vector EPS" version of a logo, only to open the file in Illustrator and discover that is simply a raster image of the logo saved in the EPS format. It's extremely frustrating.

EPS should be used when you have a vector drawing of your logo or illustration and want to preserve its vector paths. This will allow you to scale it to any size without every pixellating the image (as V's example above demonstrates). These types of vector EPS files are best created in Adobe Illustrator. EPS is preferred to Illustrator's .AI format because EPS is readable by several other programs, while AI's are mostly only useful if the user has Illustrator. If I receive a vector EPS file, say for example a title treatment or logotype for a film, I have the ability to alter all paths, change colors, and essentially "break" the artwork apart into all of the layers that the original designer has used to create the file. A true vector EPS allows me the greatest flexibility to do what I want with the file.

Does this mean that if I created a logo which is maybe mostly text and then tried to create the EPS file it would not be preferable to PNG? Or would the text just have to be rasterized before I could create the path anyways (I've never created a clipping path)?

QUOTE (kernie82 @ Mar 29 2013, 04:44 PM) *
As a personal anecdote, I'm often surprised by how many people in the design field are flabbergasted by both vector and EPS. I've provided vector EPS files along with raster JPGs and PNGs (the rasters are mainly for reference) to several local printing companies and in 90% of the cases, the people at these companies are clueless about how to handle EPS. If they would actually familiarize themselves with the formats that are involved in running their businesses, they would realize that using the EPS is the best possible option for achieving the highest print quality with the optimal flexibility for editing or altering the file. In most cases, they didn't know what the EPS was, assumed it was useless, and deleted it. Then they would call me and wonder why the low-res reference JPG didn't print out well as an 8 foot by 4 foot banner. I have to bite my tongue and kindly explain that the "useless" file they deleted because they didn't know how to use it was essentially the most important file I could have sent them.

Okay, thanks for letting me rant about EPS files... that's been bottling up inside for a while. 8824.gif 8824.gif 8824.gif

Cute story. Before I retired I was an electrical engineer. I had to deal with lots of people who thought they were electrical engineers too.
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voetzoeker
post Mar 29 2013, 10:37 PM
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QUOTE (bluesnow @ Mar 29 2013, 10:26 PM) *
If I have spent hours creating an intricate logo as a raster image, could I not then save it as an EPS so the user could at least scale it without losing what detail it may have had as a raster image? It would never get worse than the original then.


You don't need to save your file as EPS to get beter Quality then PNG or Tiff

If you have a Rastered file, the quality will never get beter then the original file you have created EPS PNG or Tiff

The thing to keep the quality of your original file when using it in a PS file is to use the "place" option, to import your file into your document.
This way it will create a smart object, this is basically your original file that you can scale down and up again without to much of the original quality getting lost.

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bluesnow
post Mar 29 2013, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE (voetzoeker @ Mar 29 2013, 06:37 PM) *
The thing to keep the quality of your original file when using it in a PS file is to use the "place" option, to import your file into your document.
This way it will create a smart object, this is basically your original file that you can scale down and up again without to much of the original quality getting lost.

This is getting more complicated by the "post".

OK, I just tried out the Place function. I've seen it in the File Menu before but didn't have a clue what it meant. Not many people will know about this though because it's never been mentioned (that I've heard) before. Now I understand it's not necessary to do this, but creating an EPS file from a raster image would be better than a PNG or TIFF if you expect the user will scale the file because (like me) he's never heard of the Place function? On the other hand, how much will a logo generally get scaled? You make it a little large so it looks good when it's shrunk and that just about covers 99% of the uses of it.
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Kernie
post Mar 29 2013, 11:25 PM
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:bang: :bang: :bang:

Bottom line...

1) If you're going to use raster images, or raster versions of logos, NEVER scale them larger than their original dimensions. Pixellation will occur no matter what.

2) There are ZERO benefits to saving a raster image as an EPS file. EPS preserves vector path information. Raster files don't have vector path information... so it's basically useless. Use JPEG, PNG, TIFF, or GIF (if you must) for raster images. Then refer to #1 above.

3) EPS format is meant to be a common vector format compatible with a variety of programs. Use EPS when you have a vector file that you want to retain path information.

4) Photoshop's "Place" feature is meant to place images into a document as a Smart Object. Smart Objects "nest" the original image file with the PSD, so that when the Smart Object is scaled down to 10%, the user has the ability to scale it back to 100% without pixellation. The reason it does not pixellate is because the original resolution image is preserved within the smart object. (On the flipside, scaling a non-Smart Object to 10% and then resizing back to 100% will result in pixellation because the full size image info was lost when scaled to 10%). However, as with #1 above, scaling a Smart Object above 100% of its original resolution will result in pixellation. In a nutshell, any time you scale any raster file larger than 100% of its original size, you will get pixellation. This cannot be avoided. It is the nature of raster images.

5) Vector EPS files CAN be scaled larger than 100% because they are not based on definitive pixels, they are based off vectors... mathematical points and curves that, when scaled, are re-interpreted to maintain crisp, clean edges. This is the primary benefit of using vector shapes and vector EPS files for logos, they can be scaled smaller and larger over and over again without ever having to worry about the file becoming pixellated... because there are essentially no "pixels" involved.

In my attempt to clarify things, I may be making them more complicated. sad.gif sad.gif


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post Mar 29 2013, 11:33 PM
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No, IMO you actually just made everything clear! 8834.gif


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post Mar 30 2013, 12:16 AM
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Yes Kernie, I'm pretty clear on this now. You don't need to bang your head any more.

It's like taking a low res image and re-sampling it to mega dpi. You can't create any image information that isn't already there.

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post Mar 30 2013, 08:43 AM
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Great job explaining Kernie thumb.gif thumb.gif

On a side note:

You should always use the place option when importing vector EPS files in PS, otherwise the vector data will get lost.
If you just simply open a vector EPS, PS will convert it to raster when opening. (you can increase the resolution of the eps, and thereby the quality when opening, but it will always be raterized)

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You can do it this way, but keep in mind you can only scale DOWN your image and never scale it up without data los
as kernie explained 8824.gif
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post Mar 30 2013, 11:22 AM
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When I open an EPS logo file I typically set the resolution to 300 dpi because that's the resolution of the cover or label I'm working on. I guess I've been unknowingly doing that part right, but I never realized PS would rasterize it.

V: you said that the Place function opens the file as a smart object. What would be the basic difference then between Place and Open As Smart Object?
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